Prozacs Personal Gaming Report, June 1999

______________________________ ______/\___________________ \__ _ \__ _ \__ _ \_.-\_ / \__ _ \__ _/___ -poyZ/SP/ / / _/ _/ / / __/ / / / / __ / _____/____\ \_________/___________/____/____/_________/ __ /_/\--/____/-----------\ /---------------------------------------------/\_\ \_\/ \ / \/_/ : P R O Z A C ' S \/ P E R S O N A L G A M I N G R E P O R T : : JUNE 1999 - ISSUE #6 : +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Welp, it seems this report has become ALMOST the rip gaming scene monthly report standard (which is debatable). Already several other reports have showed up, using this report as the model for their report, which I find to be a compliment. This report, to let people know, is based on my opinion, and nothing else. It attempts to be non-bias, but being non-bias in the scene is impossible to achieve. Enjoy this report. Rules of a release (May be revisions, amended and modified at any given notice of one month. A % will be placed next to the rule if one has been modified or added in comparison to last month): %1. This report will uphold to The Faction's rules, including the disk limit of 50 * 2.88M disks. Most release that purposely breaks The Faction rules will have -1.0 points deducted. If I decide to make an exception, it will be a case-by-case decision. 2. Trainers and Update Cracks will receive 0.5 points. A trainer that is an exact duplicate with the same functions of another group's trainer will receive 0.0 points. Non-working trainers and uncracked updates will receive -0.5 points. A group that release a duplicate cracked or beta update will receive -0.5 points. If two groups race on a patch, the loser will get 0.0 points. Updated trainers for a release by the same group do no receive any points. 3. A game, trainer, patch or addon mispackaged will receive -0.5 points. 4. A game must work to receive all of the points of the game. -1.0 points will be deducted if a game requires a major fix. If one group fixes another group release to make the game functional at the beginning, that group that fixed the release will be transferred the release points and the original release group will receive -1.0 points for the game. If a game requires a minor fix (Uncommon .DLL file, etc.), a group will be deducted -0.5 points. A game infected with a virus will be deducted -1.0. A crack/fix must be released by a major group in order for any points to be deducted. 5. Trainers, patches and add-ons for an over-the-limit or ISO release will receive 0.0 points. Any group who releases an add-on that didn't originally release the rip version will get 0.0 points. 6. Add-ons for a game: a maximum of 2 are allowed for one game and will receive 0.5 points per add-on. These add-ons must be 100% completely functional with the original release and be under 25 disks, or the add-on will receive -0.5 points. 7. If an official add-on is released as a standalone, it will be treated as a full release. Official add-ons for a game that are not standalone will receive half the points of a full release. Unauthorized or unofficial add-ons will receive 0.0 points. 8. If two groups put out one game at the same time, the winning group on the FTP sites will receive the full points, and the losing group will receive 0.0 points. A dupe from a release last month or several months ago will receive -2.0 points. 9. If a game is proven to be a beta, and the final is put out that month, the group who releases the final will receive the release points, and the group releasing the beta will be deducted -2.0 points. If a final is put out the next month or several months down the road, the group that released the beta will receive -2.5. The points from the group that released the original beta will have its points deducted from the yearly total. Beta to final patches from a group will receive up to 2.0 points, and the original group releasing the beta will be hit with -2.0 (less than a month old beta) or -2.5 (over a month old beta) points for the infraction. 10. Games intended for kids, edutainment or just plain lame (Ex. 3D Maze Man) will receive -1.0 points. 11. Any rule found to be broken after the monthly charts have been released will still have it's points removed from the yearly total in the next months charts. The original points will be removed along with points removed depending on the infraction. Scoring System: The scoring system mixes both JTF & Mason's report with this formula: %1. Rating. This is based on how good the game is. This also depends on rip quality (which will explain why some games might not get as many points as you might think it deserves). This can collect between 1.0-4.0 points depending on the quality of the actual game & the rip. 2. Company. A release will receive 0.1-0.5 points based on what company the game was published and/or developed by. The more well-known the company, the more points it will accumulate. An example is a game from Electronic Arts will receive 0.5 points, while a game from Webfoot would receive 0.1 points. The game will not receive any points in this category if it breaks a rule like being a dupe or beta. 3. Popularity & Anticipation. This depends on how awaited and how well receive the game is, like Quake 3, or if the game is a surprise smash hit, like Grand Theft Auto. If it's an unknown game by an unknown company, like Rising Star, it'd get 0.0. This can receive 0.0-0.5 points. The game will not receive any points in this category if it breaks a rule like being a dupe or beta. ______ /| ___ /\______ /\______ / \/ | / _ \ / _____/ _____> / |_ / |/ | \\____ \ \____ \ < | < / | / | \/ | \ \ _____\_<____|___\_____ /\_____ / +=\/======================\/=======\/==+ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Release Name & Company Date |Rating|Comp.|Popu.= Total | | | | | Man O War 2 (c) Strategy First/GT Interactve 06/02| +2.7 |+0.5 |+0.2 = +3.4 | Trophy Buck v1.07 Update Cracked (c) Sierra 06/10| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Might And Magic 7 +5 Trainer 06/11| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Steel Panthers: World War 2 v2.0 Patched 06/13| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Tarzan (c) Disney Interactive 06/15| +2.4 |+0.4 |+0.2 = +3.0 | Need For Speed: High Stakes Money Cheat 06/15| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Rouge Squadron v1.00.01 Update Cracked 06/17| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Dark Vengence v1.20 Update Cracked 06/17| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | F-22 Lightning 3 Update Cracked 06/17| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Heavy Gear 2 (c) Activision 06/18| +3.7 |+0.5 |+0.4 = +4.6 | Total Annihiliation Kingdoms Trainer 06/20| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Militato Cheat Codes 06/20| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Arcade Greatest Hits Trainer 06/20| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Breakneck Trainer 06/22| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Heavy Gear 2 All Missions Cheat 06/24| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Dungeon Keeper 2 All Levels Cheat 06/24| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Peacemaker All Missions Trainer 06/24| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Breakneck Speed Trainer 06/24| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Breakneck Track Fix -FOR ORIGIN REL. 06/25| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Imperialism v1.03 Update Cracked (c) SSI 06/25| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | West Front Battle Pack 1 (c) Talonsoft 06/26| +2.8 |+0.3 |+0.2 = +3.3 | West Front Battle Pack 1 Addon 06/27| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Sega Rally 2 (c) Sega 06/27| +3.6 |+0.4 |+0.4 = +4.4 | Sega Rally 2 Addon 06/28| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Sega Rally 2 Cheat 06/28| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Sega Rally 2 Update Cracked (c) Sega 06/29| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Atari Arcade Hits Volume 1 (c) Hasbro 06/29| +2.2 |+0.5 |+0.1 = +2.8 | Fighting Steel v1.01 Update Cracked (c) SSi 06/30| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Atari Arcade Hits Volume 1 Trainer 06/30| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | __________________________________________________|______|_____|_____________| Monthly Total Points | +33.1 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Notes worth mentioning: In one of the closest months of the year so far, Class suprises everyone and wins for the month of June. This was done by not having one fix for the whole month, plus putting out a nice boatload of trainers & updates at the end of the month. We'll have to see if Class can keep it up next month. ███ ▄▄▄ ▄▄▄ ░▒▓ ▄▄▄ ▀▀▀▀██▄ ▀▀▀▀██▄ ▄█▄███ ▀▀▀ ███ ▒▓█ ▀▀▀ ▓▒░ ███ ░▒▓ ▓██ ███ ▓██ ▓▒░ ██▓ ▓██ ░▒▓ █▓▒ ▓██ ▒▓█▀▀▀ ██▓ ▒▓█ █▓▒ ██▓ ███ ▒▓█ ██▓ ▓██ ▓██ ░▒▓ ██▓ ░▒▓ ██▓ ███ ███ ▓██ ███ ▓██ ███ ▒▓█ ▀██▄▄▄▄▄███ ▀█▄█▀ ███ ███ ███ ███▄▓█▀ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Release Name & Company Date |Rating|Comp.|Popu.= Total | | | | | Total Annihilation: Kingdoms TPC FIX -NO! 06/20| 0.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = 0.0 | Arcade's Greatest Hits (c) Wizardworks 06/23| +2.0 |+0.2 |+0.1 = +2.3 | Dragon Challenge (c) Expert 06/30| +2.0 |+0.2 |+0.1 = +2.3 | __________________________________________________|______|_____|_____________| Monthly Total Points | +4.6 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Notes worth mentioning: Divine keeps on the tradition of putting out sub-par games that other groups have long passed over, being in 5th place for the month. It looks like this will continue for quite a while, and nothing will really change this. __ ______ ______ ____ _____ ____ _____ \// _ \ _ \_\__/ _ \_\__/_\_ \ / / / / /. / / / / / / \______/ \____|_/\___ /___/___/ / --------|___|---------/____\------/____\- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Release Name & Company Date |Rating|Comp.|Popu.= Total | | | | | Descent 3 (c) Interplay 06/13| +3.9 |+0.3 |+0.5 = +4.7 | Rich Diamond (c) Core Concept 06/14| +2.2 |+0.1 |+0.1 = +2.4 | Star Trek: BOTF Cheat Codes 06/15| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Peacemaker (c) Jinxter 06/15| +2.7 |+0.1 |+0.3 = +3.1 | Dungeon Keeper 2 (c) Electronic Arts 06/18| +3.9 |+0.5 |+0.5 = +4.9 | Dungeon Keeper 2 Music Addon 06/18| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Dungeon Keeper 2 Speech Addon 06/18| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Breakneck (c) THQ 06/18| +3.3 |+0.3 |+0.4 = +4.0 | TA: Kingdoms -WAY OVER LIMIT 06/20| -1.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -1.0 | TA: Kingdoms FIX -FIX 06/20| -1.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -1.0 | Dungeon Keeper 2 +2 Trainer 06/23| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Might And Magic 7 +7 Mega Trainer 06/23| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Peacekeeper +2 Trainer 06/23| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Warzone v1.05 Update Cracked (c) Eidos 06/25| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Attack of the Saucerman (c) Psygnosis 06/25| +2.8 |+0.3 |+0.3 = +3.4 | __________________________________________________|______|_____|_____________| Monthly Total Points | +24.0 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Notes worth mentioning: While argueably OGN put out the most smash titles this month, that's all they put out in June. While OGN had an outstanding month for June, their only focus on games and not including patches & updates kind of hurt them, and put them in 3rd place for the month. ▄██▀██▄ ▐█▄ █▄ ▐██▌ ▐██▌ ▀ ▀▀ ▀▀ ▀▀▀▀▐█▓▌▓█▀▀▀ ▀▀▀ ▀ ▀ ▐██▌ ▐██▌██▄▀█▀██▄▀██▄▐█▀▐█▓▌▄ ▐█▀██▄▀▄██▄ ▐██▌▄██▀ ▐▓█▌▌ ██▓ ▐██▌▌ ▐██▌██ ▌ ▐██▌█ ██▌ ▐██▌ ▄██▀▄██▌▌ ▄▄▄▀▄██▌ ▐██▌██▌ ▐██▌█ ▐██ ▐██▌▐██▌ ▐█▓▌▌▐██▌ ▐█▓▌▌ ▐█▓▌█▓▌▌ ▐█▓▌█ ▐█▓ ▐██▌ ▀██▄█▀█▌█▄▀██▄█▀█▌█▄██▀▄██▌█▄▐█▓▌▀ ██▓ ▄▄▄ ▐██▌ ▀███▄███ ▀▀▀▀▀ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Release Name & Company Date |Rating|Comp.|Popu.= Total | | | | | Machines v1.1 Update Cracked (c) Acclaim 06/01| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Requiem v1.2 Update Cracked (c) 3DO 06/02| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Upwords (c) Hasbro Interactive 06/02| +2.8 |+0.5 |+0.2 = +3.5 | Malakri v1.1 Update Cracked (c) I-Magic 06/04| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Warzone v1.04 Update Cracked (c) Eidos 06/04| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Powerslide v1.04 Update Cracked (c) GT 06/04| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Jimmy White 2 v1.06 Update (c) Virgin 06/05| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | CM3 v3.03d Update Cracked (c) Eidos 06/05| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Powerslide v1.04 Update FIXED -FIX 06/07| -0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -0.5 | PGA Golf '99 Tournment fix -FIX 06/09| -1.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -1.0 | High Heat Baseball 2000 v1.1 Update Cracked 06/09| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Starsige v1.0003 Update Cracked (c) Sierra 06/09| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Fighter Squadron v1.5 Update (c) Activision 06/10| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Might & Magic 7 (c) 3DO 06/10| +3.7 |+0.3 |+0.4 = +4.4 | Might & Magic 7 D3D/3DFX Addon 06/10| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Might & Magic 7 Software Addon 06/10| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Tarzan +4 Trainer 06/16| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Rich Diamond +3 Trainer 06/16| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Militato (c) Samsung -CRC ERRORS 06/19| -1.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -1.0 | Militato *REPACK* (c) Samsung 06/19| +2.1 |+0.1 |+0.1 = +2.3 | Outcast (c) Infogrames 06/24| +3.8 |+0.3 |+0.5 = +4.6 | Outcast Hi-Res Addon 06/25| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Black Moon Chronicles (c) Cyro 06/26| +3.1 |+0.3 |+0.3 = +3.7 | Unreal: Return to Na Pali (c) GT Interactive 06/26| +3.7 |+0.5 |+0.5 = +4.7 | Unreal: Return to Na Pali Music Addon 06/27| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Unreal: Return to Na Pali Fix -FIX 06/27| -1.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -1.0 | Gangsters Update Patch 4 Cracked (c) Eidos 06/27| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Cricket 99 v1.0 Update Cracked (c) EA 06/28| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Black Moon Chronicles +4 Trainer 06/28| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Unreal: Return to Na Pali FULL FIX -FIX 06/28| -1.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -1.0 | Kingpin (c) Interplay 06/29| +3.8 |+0.3 |+0.5 = +4.6 | __________________________________________________|______|_____|_____________| Monthly Total Points | +32.8 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Notes worth mentioning: While PDM was strong all during the month, the 4 fixes for the month of June (3 games, 1 update) & the repack hurt them in the long run. While PDM put several smash titles for June, it's just those damn fixes that bit them in the ass to place in 2nd place for June. /\______ /\______ ____/\______ __ \____ \/ \__ \/ _ \____ \ __/ \____ / _/ _/ \/ / / / _/ _// / / / / / / \ \ /\ / /\ / / \ \/ /\ / / / \__/\ \/ \______\___/\__/\ \/ / /_/_/ ======\___)===\__)============\___)=\/======= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Release Name & Company Date |Rating|Comp.|Popu.= Total | | | | | Hoyle Mah Johng & Solitiaire (c) Sierra 06/03| +2.0 |+0.5 |+0.1 = +2.6 | Hoyle Craps & Blackjack (c) Sierra -DUPE 06/03| -2.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -2.0 | Starsiege Tribes v1.0 to v1.5 Update 06/11| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Starsiege Tribes v1.41 to v1.5 Update 06/11| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Panzer Commander v1.3 Update (c) SSi 06/11| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Fighting Steel (c) Mindscape/SSI 06/11| +2.8 |+0.3 |+0.2 = +3.3 | Descent 3 +7 Trainer 06/15| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | MIA v1.02 Update Cracked (c) GT Interactive 06/19| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | TA: Kingdoms (c) Cavedog/GT Interactive 06/19| +3.9 |+0.5 |+0.5 = +4.9 | TA: Kingdoms Music Addon 06/19| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | TA: Kindgoms v1.0BM Update Crack 06/24| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Asgahn Update Crack 06/25| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | After Dark Arcade Games (c) Sierra -DUPE 06/25| -2.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -2.0 | Dungeon Keeper 2 +4 Trainer 06/26| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Total Annhiliation: Kingdoms v1.0BO Update 06/30| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | __________________________________________________|______|_____|_____________| Monthly Total Points | +11.8 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Notes worth mentioning: While RZR argueably put out the biggest game of the month in TA:K (RZR gets the nod over OGN because it was right at the limit and it didn't need a fix), they get a black eye for the rest of the month of June, putting out 2 dupes. At the end, the place in 4th place for June. ▄ ████ ▄▄■▀█▄▄▄ ▀████▀ ▄▄ ▀███▄▄■▄██▄▄ ▀▀█ ▀███▀ ████ ▐████ ▀███▌ ▐█████▀ █ ▀ ▄▄▄▄█ sQz▐███▌ █████▀ ███▌▄██▀▀▀ ▄██▄▄ ▄██████ <<====▀▀■▀▀ == ▄████▌==== ▀▀▀ ▀▀▀████▀▀ =>> t h e p l a █████▀ y e r s c l u b ▐▀▀ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Release Name & Company Date |Rating|Comp.|Popu.= Total | | | | | Tarzan +1 Trainer 06/15| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | TA: Kingdoms -WAY OVER LIMIT 06/19| -1.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -1.0 | Links LS '99 v1.21 Update Cracked 06/20| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | TA: Kingdoms FIX -FIX BY OGN 06/20| -1.0 | 0.0 | 0.0 = -1.0 | African Safari Hunter 3D v1.1 Patch 06/23| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | Salt Water Fly Fishing v1.1 Patch 06/23| +0.5 | 0.0 | 0.0 = +0.5 | __________________________________________________|______|_____|_____________| Monthly Total Points | 0.0 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Notes worth mentioning: Well TPC attempted, and I gave them the chance, but at the end they sputter and die. TPC hits the basement this month, and decides to go ISO only (read: the group is about to disband). Other This ranking will not be tallied each month, but this column is worth mentioning games from group not considered top groups in the scene. This is where groups like Fusion & Backlash would typically fall under. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Release Name & Company Date Group 3D Hunting Extreme (c) Macmillian 06/01 DD Neon: The Adventures of Tim 06/06 CRV Savage Arena FINAL (c) Rage 06/07 TBT Dragoon: Battles of Fredrick the Great (c) Art Of War Pub. 06/07 DD ____________________________________________________________________________ Ranking of groups for the month. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Group Monthly Total Points 1. Class +33.1 2. Paradigm +32.8 3. Origin +24.0 4. Razor +11.8 5. Divine +4.6 6. TPC 0.0 Yearly total so far: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Group Yearly Total 1. Paradigm +256.4 2. Class +207.5 3. Origin +119.8 4. Razor +66.1 5. Divine +21.5 6. TPC +9.8 Interviews of the month ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This month's interviews are with Beowulf from Razor, and SunDancer from Class (and Ex-PDM/RZR). The interview with Beowulf was conducted via e-mail, so it might not look like a typical PPGR interviews, but it's still thorough. NOTE: this interview was conducted BEFORE the TA:K controversy. -- Interview with Beowulf 1. I want to thank you for your time in this interview, and I start off with the same question I ask everyone, to let people know who you are, where you came from (please, no birds & the bees story needed), and all that stuff. So.. Where did you start in the scene and how you get hooked up with Razor 1911? I made my first "scene" presence with the original PE (Public Enemy) as a stand-in cracker, and was then shuttled off to High Voltage as a utilities (and some games) cracker for the now infamous Phonestud and Killerette. After HV died, I joined up with TDT (The Dream Team) in it's final year of operation and cracked a few games for them. TDT soon died, and at that point I joined up with my first seriously full-time cracking team of NEXUS. After cracking a lot of games for NEXUS and gaining a lot of scene experience (if it can be called that), NEXUS merged with RAZOR 1911 and I was brought in as a RAZOR cracker. This is where I have been for quite a few years now, and am here to stay. 2. Around 96 to 98, you were considered among the gaming scene a "cracking god", and there seemed to be a competition between other "cracking gods" in the gaming scene like with Grudge. Who do you think gave you this label of "cracking god", the leaders of Razor 1911, or the scene in general in appreciation of your hard work? Ah yes...the "god" tag. This started from RAZOR insiders as an internal ego-booster or something. I guess it worked, becuase over the last few years I have invested a LOT of time an effort in building/maintaining/improving the RAZOR that exists today. Of course, a few members of other groups witnessed some RAZOR members calling me "god" and took it upon themselves to annouce that I thought I was "god of the cracking scene" and had no match. This, of course, is total nonsense. I have never said, and never will say, that I am superior to all crackers. Yes, I have a lot of experience with cracking games. Yes, I have a tendancy to border on fanatical when testing games for release. And yes, I have strong ideas about quality levels for releasing games. But by no means does this make me a god...I let the scene decide how good I am by playing the games I crack and/or rip. 3. What were some games you cracked that you're proud of taking a lot of time into cracking? Command and Conquer: Red Alert was one of big ones. That one took me over 16 hours, non-stop cracking/testing/re-indexing and involved a complete group effort to release (older group members still recall the saga involved in getting that game to me...=). That game came out as one of the first games with a really nasty custom index format that was quite difficult to re-index. After banging my head against a wall for what seemed like an eternity, I finally figured out the key to it, and *BAM*, we won the release. A fix was required for the game, but from the e-mail I received, that was quite readily excused because of the complexity of the game. Starcraft was another one, and again it involved some massive data files that had to be re-indexed. Borrowing from my personal experience at ripping and manipulating Blizzard's earlier release of Diablo, I had managed to build a set of utilities that allowed me to rebuild and alter Blizzard's nasty MPQ files, and this won the day for us again. Fixes were required for this game as well, but again, due to the immense complexity of the game, I believe they were excused. The Total Annihilation addon was another great one. The programmers at Cavedog knew what they were doing, and slipped in a lot of nasty hidden CD checks in their code to thwart would-be rippers. Their HaPI format is also quite nasty to unpack/re-pack, but I managed to create manipulation tools for that format as well. See a pattern forming here? =) 4. Starcraft. I personally believe that was arguably one of your best cracking/ripping games you were credited to. a) How many hours did you spend working on this game? About 2 weeks of preparation building my MPQ manipulation tools, but only about 4 hours to crack/rip/test it. b) Why so many fixes? The complexity of the MPQ file format means that removing data from the file and re-indexing only the data that is needed is a very complicated job. Without getting too technical, the MPQ format uses a one-way hashing algorithm to generate a hash-value from a file-name. Becuase of this, the internal index tables of the MPQ contain only hash-values and no filenames, so you have to use some tricky methods to determine which file is which in an MPQ. Becuase of this, a few files were not extracted and included in the RAZOR release of the game. Of course, as I mentioned before, the public generally understands how complicated the game is to rip, and forgives fixes for titles of that magnitude. c) Do you think it was a coincidence that you found out the battle.net tracking was discovered, and you went public that it started up a storm of controversy in the gaming market? A user on IRC tipped me off to some traces he had done, so I took it upon myself to trace the BATTLE.NET connection myself and discovered that indeed, Blizzard was taking personal information from computers without authorization. Although it is hard to argue legalities where you are in the business of stealing someone else's software, Blizzard's actions were just too intrusive and had to be brought to the public's attention. They crossed the line, as far as I am concerned. The text file I released about Blizzard's registry-key stealing then triggered a law suit against Blizzard from a California lawyer (which was eventually settled out of court), but Blizzard still to this day denies that they took any information from the registry keys I mentioned in my text file. What they actually did was panic when they read my text file, and disabled the "registry-key-stealing" portion of the BATTLE.NET connection code so that others couldn't log the traces as I and many other scener's did. d) Why did the rip of Starcraft: Brood Wars suck so much? By ripping out the music & speech, you took out what made the original rip so much. Hmm. You're the first person that told me it sucked. =) Since Brood Wars was billed as an expansion pack, that was exactly what we gave the users. More levels, more characters, and more kick-ass Starcraft action. There was virtually no new music in Brood Wars, and if we had included the speech, the game would have been massive. My opinion is that if you want the full gaming experience, buy the game. The developers really do need support (today's games generally have to have huge budgets to be considered acceptable). 5. Game companies have started to move away from CD Checks and now into ISO Protection. But Razor 1911 is behind, and as far as I know, has not cracked a game with ISO protection in the game so far in its history. Any reasons why? Is Razor stumped on it, no time? We have resources to remove all known ISO-based protection. It is simply a matter of winning the race to the title. 6. For the first half of '99, RZR was pretty dead, sporadically releasing, and now in May have rebounded to release some very nice games. Is this because Razor is almost just a two-man team, with all the others doing some menial tasks, or do the others in the group do their part also? RAZOR is a family, and as such goes through high and low periods. The scene naturually works on a cycle, with some groups being recognized more than others over the course of a year. There are no freeloaders in RAZOR...everyone does their part whenever they can. Of course, as a family we recognize when certain members are unable to perform their duties because of personal problems or conflicts in the far more important RL (Real Life). This has been the cornerstone of RAZOR for a long time: we respect all of our "family members" and try to make the scene a fun place to be. If it isn't fun, it isn't worth it. 7. Now that Razor 1911 has been around for so long, do you think sometimes the only reason its still around is because of its long-standing history? Definately not. You cannot exist for as long as RAZOR has on talk alone. We have always been respected for going that extra mile on a release to make sure the end-user gets a decent product, and this is something I have worked hard to cement into all RAZOR member's activities. I personally take pride in the QA system I developed for releases I work on, and from the e-mail I receive, the users appreciate it. 8. Do you think companies are getting better and trickier with CD Protection? Yes. It is amusing to see the protection methodology cycle...from no protection to floppy-diskette based protection to doc-checks to CD-checks and now back to media based protection with the introduction of SafeDisc and SecuROM. Companies learn what works and what doesn't and I personally think the move to ISO protection with SafeDisc and SecuROM is going to be great for the scene. I know it sounds insane to have me condoning a protection scheme, but as the old saying goes "don't bite the hand that feeds you". These ISO based protections will slow down those mass-duplicating piracy houses in Asia that rob so much money from developers. Of course, the rip and ISO scene will still exist but the process of generating an exact copy of an application or game will not be as simple as just copying the CD. Over time, this will change, but for now, it means more money back in the pockets of developers. 9. Why do you take the time to create these depackers for Fallout & Lucasarts Games? The users. I have always been a huge supporter of talking to the people who actually PLAY the games we release, unlike some other groups that can't see the forest for the trees. I receiver countless e-mails from people thanking me for these utilities, becuase it enables them to maximize their enjoyment of a product they spent their hard-earned money on. Most of my utilities I release focus on "ripping" apart large data files from original CDs into their componets, so users who actually buy the game have the option to look at the guts of the game, perhaps even customize it a little. In the case of Fallout, I released the ripping utility becuase I wanted users to see the internal file structure of the game, and even customize it. In LucasArt's games, I was driven by their musical scores. They pump out some of the best music in the business, and leaving it in their custom audio format seemed like such a waste. 10. Since you're so busy in real life, do people just call you or page you on an "as-needed" basis? Both. 11. Would like to tell us about the kid that's coming? You going to call it Beo Jr.? I've had many suggestions for names but we haven't decided yet. We also decided not to learn the gender before hand, so I guess we'll be doing it the old-fashioned way. The baby is due late August, and suffice it to say, it's going to turn my world upside down. =) 12. Why do you think people look up to you? I practice what I preach, I guess. I have always been quite verbal about the level of quality I expect on a release I am working on, and as most RAZOR seniors can tell you, I can get a little crazy about testing. This, I think, is reflected in the respect we get from users. 13. Has Razor ever came close to calling it quits? Not that I know of. As long as I am around, you can be sure RAZOR will never die. =) 14. Do you think it's the cracker or the supplier's/packager's fault because of fixes? Why do you think fixes are rare from Razor? Fixes can result from a number of sources...you can't point the finger at just one group. With today's CD protection and the complexity of getting a game to work with missing files, it generally falls on the crackers head, though. As I have mentioned before, RAZOR takes pride in taking that extra hour/day to test a game and make sure it works. This of course, doesn't catch anything, and we can't test everything all the time, but it helps "raise the bar" of quality to a level that is appreciated by end-users. And the end-user is what the scene is all about. Why else are we doing this? 15. Have you ever worried that what you've now and in the past will catch with you in the future? No. Piracy (in contrast to phreaking, carding etc.) is generally considered an invisible crime. Developers know it exists, and like any evil, you can't get rid of it completely. So, in some sense, it is tolerated as long as it does not become a business. In my opinion, people who re-sell pirated games to end-users are the lowest form of scum around. It is one thing to crack a game and play it at home for free, perhaps with the intention of buying it if it is really good. It is another ball game when you try to make a profit by selling a pirated game. Call it a fine line, but it does exist. 16. Has cracking ever been a benefit for you, and how so? Yes. I have cracked a few titles for monetary profit (compensation for my time). More importantaly though, it has given me a thourough understanding of the innards of modern programs, so I am able to understand what is "under the hood" a little better. Since I work in RL as a programmer and technical analyst, this directly improves my ability to do my job. 17. There has always been an undeclared rivalry between you and grudge, do you see a rivalry among both of you? Or do you both gets along great? The Grudge-Beowulf rivalry thing is totally false, and I suspect rumor-driven. I have nothing but respect for Grudge, and we have had long friendly chats about the scene and ripping. He is a great guy, and a great cracker. I've never met an Aussie I didn't like. =) 18. Do you get a lot of pressure from people when you're working on a tough game, one that either needs reindexing or iso protection removed? Do you feel disappointed when you lose? Do you finish cracking the game even if you're beaten? Anyone who works with me knows that pressuring me is a bad thing. I finish when I finish. Yes, of course I am disappointed when I lose, and usually I do finish cracking a game even if I was beaten. The worst is when you discover that the other group that released the game did a piss-poor job ripping or cracking the game, and your release would have been better, but the scene will never know. 19. Do you think your lack of availability has hurt Razor? Yes. For awhile, other members came to rely on me perhaps more that they should. This can only improve RAZOR though, as we all know that a group can never exist on one cracker. We have been importing and training a lot of new blood recently which will help reduce my workload (and god knows I'll need the spare time in September...). 20. Which you think will go first, the rip scene or Razor? Neither. They are symbiotic. 21. Any last words you'd like to mention? Just a general thanks to those who are striving to improve the scene, and not just ride on it's coattails. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. -- Interview with Sun Dancer <PPGR> Welp lets start with the common introduction and common first question I ask everyone. So who are you, how the FUCK you got in this shit, and how you got to where you're at right now. <SunDancer> I am Sun Dancer, known for being a real bastard and having a cynical sense of humour. I have been in the scene since 1986, which more or less labels me "moron" right? ;) <SunDancer> I joined the scene "back in the day" as a graphician, and it is still the artistic element of myself that is my main force. But as it is widely known, I have supplied games aswell - which I suppose makes me more attractive to games groups, than my graphics does :P <SunDancer> During the timespan from 1986 to 1999 I have moved from the demoscene to the warezscene. From the c64 to the PC, with small sideprojects on the N64, PSX, SNES and Amiga scene. <PPGR> Didn't you tell me once that PDM was not the first group you intended to join first? <SunDancer> Well, jumping ahead in history; After a break I rejoined the scene in 1996 - as a part of Razor 1911. At the time the group was doing reasonably well, and we even managed to bring Razor 1911 to the top one month (something that had not happended in about 3 years). <SunDancer> But things got out of hand. Razor 1911 was run by 2 different forces, and I saw my work and my ambitions drown in political battles. To top that off, I am quite convinced that money was passing my nose by - so I left. <SunDancer> I was immediately accepted in Paradigm, but to answer your question - If Class had not had a ban on me, I would have asked them first.. <PPGR> So, CLS hated you ? <SunDancer> I doubt that. At the time some moronic midget in Class had enforced a ban on all Razor 1911 members in their channel. It wasn't personal, it was just a political statement (a childish one I might add). <PPGR> So what was so great about PDM? <SunDancer> Ohuh. Phew. I am going to get a lot of rags for this one.. <SunDancer> But Paradigm was, without any doubts at all, the greatest group I ever had membership in (and god knows, I have too many groups in my rooster). There isn't a leadership as such in PDM, but only all these really intelligent and motivated guys working together. Even on a crack, you will have a team of crackers each doing their part. <SunDancer> It is something you will have to experience I guess - but to this day, Paradigm (and most of the members within the group) represent the persons I respect most in the scene. <PPGR> Wow, make it as if the grass is greener on the other side for PDM. So why leave Utopia? <SunDancer> Well, I wouldn't say it is greener. But it is a different kind of green. <SunDancer> Well, something happended within the group. All of a sudden we were #1 - and things started to change within the group. Angry Elmo was at the time the most useless member within the group (Powertool have later taken that position), and thus he was beginning to feel extremely frustrated. <SunDancer> I got into severe problems with him as a person, we just couldn't accept each other (people have later claimed it was because we resemble each other too much). In the end I was left with either starting a huge internal war, or leave in peace and remember my time there as a good one. You know what I chose. <PPGR> I'll be blunt, why is it groups can't beat PDM in '99? I mean, what could we do to change their current image, some things PDM does to be #1. <SunDancer> Well, I can think of quite a few reasons really. First of all, in terms of cracking no one can beat Paradigm. In my opinion they have some of the most talented individuals within their midst, but they perform as one unit. Throw 1 cracker or 5 crackers at a game - in other groups that will cloud things up - in PDM they just crack it 5 times faster. <SunDancer> What the scene haven't understood, perhaps with the exception of The Punisher/Razor 1911, is that Paradigm is more than a group. It is a family. Where I see Class fighting with an unpopular leader, who puts distance between himself and his group, PDM goes drinking together. <SunDancer> Where members of Class loathe each other, and have each other on ignore - PDM members gladly board an airplane to visit eachother. <SunDancer> They only place PDM can be beat, is on the supplying side - you have a few individuals within the group, that does all the work. Surely you can beat them. <SunDancer> As for the image.. Class is notorious for fucking up, and requiring a fix. I wrote in the Class channel the other day, that it was time to shape up. The comment I got back was "Who cares about a fix, aslong as we get the game". That might just be one person talking, but man - that is a dangerous statement. <PPGR> But what about the recent changes? Will that help or hurt CLS, or is that just on my shoulders if I make or break CLS? <SunDancer> Well, define recent changes to me please. <PPGR> Just me promoted as a leader <SunDancer> Well, as I see it you are a lot more popular than Skill - already there I see improvement. People keep telling me that Skill is actively discouraging members within his ranks (something I have not witnessed myself - quite the opposite) - if you can turn that around, I am sure Class will do great. And consider the talent within the group - there is a reason why Class dominated the scene for 2 years straight. <SunDancer> If Class becomes #1 again, it will be because you use the strengths of the group - not because you try to mimic PDM. And again, with the talent within that group, it has the full potential to be #1 - but I don't think Class will ever retake the role as a clear dominating force within the scene. <PPGR> Currently, you think maybe some people shouldn't be running a group, or have leadership in a group? Any specifics you'd like to give (like you did with Angry Elmo). <SunDancer> Well. Take Origin - Ice and Cypher is the backbone of that group in terms of supplying. If they weren't leaders, a lot more people would consider joining them. <SunDancer> Toast is a good example of a great person, who just can't for the life of him run a group. <SunDancer> You will see that all over the line, but like it or not, the leaders of today are what makes the groups different. <PPGR> Toast runs RZR? Since when? <SunDancer> Toast doesn't run Razor 1911, I didn't say that. But during the past 2 years, he has been actively engaged in running the group - look back on the situation.. The Punisher quits, Ice and Cypher are kicked, The Punisher comes back - there were a lot of holes during the past 1.5 years. <PPGR> Why are you an ass in the scene, but in real life you're extremely cool? Some people even look up to you in real life :P <SunDancer> Sad to say, some people look up to me in the scene aswell. ;) <SunDancer> I don't really strive to be an ass, I guess I should point that out. My friends in the scene will probably be happy to tell you what a nice person I am, same will my friends in real life. The people I dislike, will loathe me in both worlds. <SunDancer> For some reason there is no in-between with me - you either accept me, or you really think that I am fucking idiot. Don't know why really. <PPGR> But you think blur the scene & reality sometimes? Is that a reason why you're getting out of this, or another reason? <SunDancer> I suppose you do see a blur sometimes. Winning a great release will get me high, I don't mind admitting that - but that is all I take with me when I leave the PC. Me leaving the scene has nothing to do with that as such. <PPGR> Like to go into detail why then? <SunDancer> Well. First of all, consider the amount of time that has passed between 1986 and 1999. The scene has changed dramatically, and I can't really keep up anymore - I simply don't understand many of the people I see involved today. <SunDancer> Second, I want to work within this industry - I more than anything want to create games. That is not impossible, I have the talent for it. Getting busted would ruin that chance for me. And it is a new world! Information is SO easy to obtain. A simple search engine and 2 days on IRC, and the feds could commence Operation CyberStorm 2. It is just a matter of time, and I don't want to be standing on the pouch when the tornado hits. <PPGR> You think that's about to go down soon? <SunDancer> I am amazed every day that it doesn't happen. Look back on the scene, and you will see specific intervals between the raids on us. According to history, the next raid is looking over your shoulder right now. <PPGR> Wouldn't be heavily involved in the scene for 13 years be useful in the game development in knowing how to make excellent anti-piracy techniques, since you worked with "the best of the best" ? <SunDancer> I suppose so, and if anyone wants to persue that direction - go right ahead guys. It is not something I would even consider - the actual creation of an emotional electronic interactieve experience is all I care about. Call me narrowminded if you wish. :P <PPGR> If you're looking into getting into the gaming business, aren't you worried that all that you've done in the last 13 years might bite you back in the ass, and destroy your career? <SunDancer> I am scared shitless to be honest. People, pirates included, don't realize how easy it is to gather information on the internet. <PPGR> With access to information readily available on the 'net, have you ever been scaried someone from the scene might sabatoge/blackmail you into something, or you think the scene's unwritten rule of never ratting out is what kept people in place? <SunDancer> Thats a tough one. We have people in the scene, who wouldn't rat on anyone else for the life of them. At the same time the openess of the internet, means that we have a lot of kids entering the scene. Unfortunately some of these kids convince others that they are valuable (Hi Amoss) and they are accepted into the innercircle. I am worried about them, not about those who were a part of the BBS scene.. <PPGR> Talking about the inner circle of the gaming scene, you think maybe groups aren't being critical/scrutinizing the members its allowing into the circle enough compared to the BBS days? <SunDancer> Definatly not - it is a new world - and thus a new scene. I wouldn't go back to "the day" to be honest, I love the speed of the internet - but you don't get anything for free in this world. The scene is open for the public now, of course that has influenced the groups aswell. <PPGR> Has ISO protection detoured you away from supplying, and made it tougher for you? You think its been successful in deturing people who don't pirate on the net, or is it now a just a joke? <SunDancer> At first ISO protections made it more time consuming to be a high-level pirate. Today it is a joke. We can crack C-Dilla in less than 5 min, Securom can (under extreme conditions) take as long as 15 min. But I suspect that the big companies knows this - they know that you will always have bastards like you and I, who pirate things. <SunDancer> They might hate us, but they accept us. If they bust us, another bastard will take our place. ISO protections are useful for the common people. The guys around the corner, who have a burner and is not afraid to use it. Those guys are stopped by ISO protections - and they are the dangerous ones. They are the massive market. <SunDancer> People who sell CDs in a larger scheme, get their shit from us. I don't see how those scum can be stopped - neither by us (the organized crime) nor by the big companies. <PPGR> You think maybe the term "oldschool" is way overused? You think maybe scene people hang onto the past too much? <SunDancer> I can't help but feel that to be honest. Anyone who had a PC before the internet scene hit us, are considered oldschool today. I can't think of a single more moronic fact about todays scene (Apart from Powertool perhaps). Oldschool equals elite in my eyes. Oldschool does not equal having used your daddy's PC 3 years ago. <PPGR> I know you said your a bastard on IRC cuz you just can on the net, but are you also a bastard to people cuz you think they deserve it? Any specific bastards you like lash out at? <SunDancer> In recent months, I might have hazzled Powertool, Beck, Pest and Grind more than anyone else. Ask any of those guys, during the months I think they have learned to see the layer of humour I do use in my ragging. I am a bastard on the net, only because some people never see the humour in my rags. <SunDancer> I am not a great person at all, I take my amount of cheap shots when I see them (and for some reason I see them a lot). But I am not an evil person as some people have suggested. <PPGR> Do you ever think some people take the scene WAAAY too seriously? You think some scene people might be socially inept? <SunDancer> When I left PDM, I found myself in Class about a week after or so. Old friends from PDM started acting really lame about it, and their thought went in a "Class is lame, so now ole Sunny is lame aswell". That is taking the scene too seriously - this is just a hobby, since we put so much time into this we should at least have fun. <SunDancer> As for socially inept sceners, you will see them of course - but they are all over the "real" world aswell. Their frequency might be higher in the scene, simply because they will find it easier to have something resembling a life here - ala the things I outlined earlier. <PPGR> I don't want to go into detail, but I'm sure you know what I'm implying when I'm saying certain scene people are taking "risks", is this too risque in your opinion? Why you think people take these "risks" when they know they could get picked up by the feds a lot easier? <SunDancer> I don't know. Honestly, I can't for the life of me figure it out. I do the same thing every day, and at the end of the day I can't help wondering why - WHY?! All I know is that the thrill of releasing a major (and beating the competition) is almost as good as sex. Hell, even as good as analsex. (I had to say anal at some point in time, you were all waiting for it) <PPGR> So which high is better, releasing a top game, or doing E (XTC/Ecstasy). <SunDancer> Preferbly a combination of them both :P <PPGR> Looking back at the scene, do you think maybe you ever had an addiction to the scene? <SunDancer> I am sure I had. I can count at least 3 relationships that went down the drain because I was too involved with the scene, one of them the best relationship of my life. <SunDancer> I like to think of myself as older and wiser today :P <PPGR> Why you think european suppliers are becoming so hard to find now? <SunDancer> Are they? Never thought about that, reason is perhaps we are getting a great deal better. I seem to find myself racing Lechucky, Dogfriend+Animal, Ice and Cypher, Cyric and OFD everytime I move a muscle. I would say it would be fairly easy to recruit nonames to deliver a game know and then, but getting a consistent supplier in Europe is not a walk in the park anymore. <PPGR> Do you think americans (yanks) don't truely understand the euro scene, and vice versa? <SunDancer> I don't see them as being that different really. The only difference would really be that europeans tend to be more educated, and yanks tend to eat more fast food. Cough, no, seriously, I don't see the big difference between them - I can even supply US titles by sitting on my tiny ass here in Europe. <SunDancer> There might have been a division of scenes back in the BBS days (where the action was centered in the US anyway), but with the openess of the internet - you can't really say that anymore. <PPGR> Well, then to rephrase the question, you think americans (yanks) don't truely understand euros, in real life, and vice versa. <SunDancer> Oh yes. You US guys have no clue as to the cultural heritage you are missing. Europe and the US are different to the extreme, and like I can't for the life of me figure out yanks, I suppose you can't figure out europeans. You US guys are disgusting in many ways in my eyes, and I am sure we are all faggots in your eyes. Even your women suck. I pity you. :P <PPGR> Why you think people will screw things up in their lives (relationships, academics, money, etc) just for the scene? What is it about the scene that makes a person put it in first priority? <SunDancer> I would say the things I mentioned earlier.. You can get almost everything from the scene, social contact, ego buzz, competition, entertainment - you can even find true love (most old c64 sceners will fondly remember the infamous OMG). <SunDancer> And it is SO convenient - you just have to sit on your ass, and push some plastics. <PPGR> You think the scene evolves almost like a society of its own, that its almost a reflection of what real life is like, but in a different setting? <SunDancer> I think you could say that. We have rich people and poor people in the scene as well. We have morons and highly intelligent manipulators as well. We have workers and slackers. We are the underground cyber-culture - most authors would kill to write about us - if they ever found out what was going on. <PPGR> Welp, I love to write, you saying I should talk about the life of the scene, from a different POV? <SunDancer> I come from a career as a TV producer, and I once made a TV program about the scene. A small fish named Pharzyde had been caught for hacking, and I made a program that gave the viewer some idea about the structure and motivations of the scene (of course Pharzyde was a friend, and by proving how small a fish he was in the program, he had no problems winning the trial). <SunDancer> That program was re-run 5 times in a year - everytime with impressive ratings. We have something here that would fascinate a lot of people - to some extent even ourselves. <PPGR> We should do "Hackers 2", call it "Hackers 2:Sceners", and this time it'll actually be accurate! :) <SunDancer> Sure - and we could do such much more than those morons in that movie anyway. Reality bites :P <PPGR> Why do you think noone remembers or appreciates the past people have done in the scene, and they only care about what you've done in the present? You think if you ever REMOTELY decided to come back, say.. 5 years down the road.. that anyone would appreciate/remember what you've done in the past? <SunDancer> Well, Burglar and I had a vision - The Underground (TU). That oldschool BBS system managed to unite sceners across platfroms and across time periods. I would say that the scener - in general - have respect for the people who pioneered the pirate community. As for myself - I did take a break for a few years. I came back in the end 1996, where I rejoined Razor 1911. <SunDancer> On my first day on IRC, I constantly ran into people who remembered me - some of them even old friends. I had no idea the kids of today would have any idea who I was, but they did - some of them could even mention some of my doings that I had forgotten. <PPGR> But why has TU died off? <SunDancer> It is a new world. Not only isn't there a lot of sceners from the BBS days, but we now have realtime communication. Since we don't card as much as we did back in the day, this is our last best hope for meaningful conversations. <SunDancer> It is sad tho - I love ragging, and it just isn't the same in realtime. <PPGR> Welp, that's about all the questions I can think of. You have anything else you've been itching to talk about? <SunDancer> Not really. I feel like saying "keep the spirit alive", but I would never lower myself to that level.. So eh.. Bye?! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- (c) PPGR: Prozac's Personal Gaming Report This report may not be reproduced with out talking with me on IRC (EFNET) or by e-mail first. URL:http://ppgr.webjump.com - E-mail:[email protected]